the president and speaker have taken no concrete steps to resolvthe so-called fscal cliff. president obama remains insistent that republicans yields to his ultimatum that he be allowed to raise taxes on those making more than $250,000 a year. republics for their part insist that the president gets

serious about cuttng spending in order to reduce trillion doll deficits and a national debt that is now mind-boggling league not -- monotonous. house minority leader disrees vehemently with the speaker on how to reduce deficits and debt. today she offered a paradoxical statement on fiscal policy that wod make both casey stiegel and yogi berra proud. the nation now just 24 days away from $600 billion of spending cuts and tax increases that will automatically kicked in. and pelosi has so wise words for washington. please listen trror. >> this is a moment of truth. the clock is ticking. christmas is coming. the goose is getting fat. in many homes across america it is very, very lean times. you cannot cut your way to deficit reduction. lou: that's rigt. pelosi says we cannot get our way to deficit reduction.

listen to the top democrat in the house of representatives, the former speaker of th house unveiling -- on dealing with the fiscal cris one more time. >> in many homes across america ad is a very, very lean time. you cannot cut your way to ficit reduction. lou: toay said minority leader appeared to be trying to outperform policy and the political rhetoric of the absurd . senator reid's reason to be wary of reducing spending. >> the european community now is concerned about all the austerity. there are many, many things you can do to reduce dbt but still have a stimulus aspect of the economy. >> that -- lou: the senate's top democrat lieves we should return to europe for inspiration and guidance for fiscal policy, taking greece, perhaps, as a standard for dealing with

econic a budget crises. the speaker did a charge the president is slow walking the nation to the brink of a fiscal cliff. that is one of the speakers firmest in the strongest statements yet. >> this is in a progress report because there is no progress to report. the white house has wasted another week. there are a lot of things that are possible to put the revenue on the table, but none of it is going to be possible. the president insists on his position. insists on my way or the highway. lou: inconveniently the congressional budget office today reported that the federal deficit is already bulging. the cbo reports for the first two months of fiscal 2013 that number $2902,000,000,000, $57 billion more than the same two month time span last year. and the labor department today report the unemployment rate fell to the 77%. good news, the lowest jobless

rate in four years. the lower unemployment rate, however, the consequence of the more han 300,000 people who dropped ou of the work force altogether just lst month. when counting the underemployed and those who have given up their search for work, the real unemployment rate amounts to a 14th 4%. my next guest says the obama administration is punishing job producers and subsidizing a withdrawal from the work force. joining us now, one of the country's most houghtfl, provocative political and economic thinkers, author george gilder who wrote the best seller, wealth and poverty, and a seminal work in it is great to have you with us. some people upon closer inspection, it isot good news anand people are leaving the wok force. >> it sure isn't. we are paying people to leave the workforce. some $1 trillion offpaments of

various kinds to keep people from working and to break up their families and to demoralize their earnest. it is -- it ignores the elephant in the room which is a massive departure of the prime age man from the work force. it is accelerating today. and part of tis is being subsidized by the government through record disability payments. lou: disability aymts from social security administration, taking that a side when one looks at food stamps and medicaid alone, you can add other incentives as well and support programs, but we ae looking at the prospect of having one in the quarter workers for every one person on welfare and working the government. we are reaching a dangerous, dangerous to pinpoint in this countr and we hae nancy pelosi, the minority leader saying that you cannot cut your

way to deficit reduction. mind-boggling. >> it is mind-boggling. after the second world war we cut our government spending by 60 percent. the economy boomed. we cut ourselves all the way into a big surplus. isel was in a ctastrophic crisis inthe m 80's. it cut its way drastically to a surplus. lou: this country has a long history. >> and new zealand. lou: this country, if we can be parochial allotted for a moment, we can learn from our own experience. it is pretty clear that when we talk about, as this administration has, returning to a clintonnera tax rates, it would be a wonderful boon if we were to be able to also return to the balanced budgets of the clinton years, if we could return to the trillion dollar peace dividend that the bush years left on the doorstep of the clinton years.

but none of tat is ever examined. also, we aso are the neficiaries of a massive technology bubbland the markets. >> plants and reduced the capital gas tax by 30percent. he increased the income tax by 10%, but the huge surge in revenues under clinton came through the capital gains tax cut, not from the income-tax increase. lou: you and i have do what the repblicans, perhaps too often. we talk about the economics of it, the theory of it, if you will, the extraction of t, but but the realitys the republican party has not come up with a rejoinder, a respnse to a, if you will, a socialist redistributionist president who right now claims thefield is on because there is no other

standard flying over that field. there is a spker of the house to is simply saying, this is not right. you know, we are not at the table and complaining, but not, not engaging. >> i think we have got to engage the argument. we cannot win the argument while acknowledging that an increase in tax rates would increase revenues and all. it will just today the top 1 percent are paying about 40 percent of the income tax. the top 25 percent are paying 87% of the income tax. it does not get any better than that. this is under the bush tax rates. you eliminate the tax rates and you will get less revenues, more capitol flight from the united states. we have the first net capital flight in decades. more departure of high-tech immigrants from the united states returning home to hina.

lou: democrats to feed the stamp act, science, technology, engineering, and mathematics. immigrants into this country who deserve it and to we desperately want to have your while we throw open our borders and our airports to people whoare, for the most part, the majority of those illegal immigrants are not even high-school eucated, lacks skills, like education. my god. d they do so rejecting that law, that bill andprevent it from becoming law because they want to have a lottery. for crying out loud. the absurdities compound themselves. >> in generawe have t recognize that the individual entrepreneur with special sklls and contributions to american produce all the jobs, and they are the ones who are getting rich, who are punished by any increase in marginal tax rates. the already rich -- lou: what abou the young man or

woman in this country who is not an entrepreneur, is not a big shot, is not in middle management in a big corporation. they won a break. they wo an opportunity. they want to live the american dream. why can't the republicans talk to them? >> i hink that they are being talked to. a great speech the other day in which he specifically addressed this aspiration, widespread among all americans to rise up. this is what supply-side economics is. it is surge of economics. it is not trickle-wn as som people caricatured. lou: you have heard that expression for 30 years. >> i never said it. lou: i'm amazed to hear the phrase escape ... but you mention one senator, and a very good one. probably one of the very best in the republican communicators. why isn't a party organized around that very idea and that

message and have a coherent campaign for the arts andinds of those who have the mos benefit? >> they get assimilated by washington. the washington culture is than talking the language of big government, and it is a deadly, demoralizing language. echoes the demoralization of the media d the -- lou: let's raise some hell, george. let'rase some hell and get some people focused on the right things here. always great to talk to you. >> thank you. lou: george gilde much more on the fiscal cliff and the republican messaging, if you can call it that, perhaps tonight's broadcast he egyptians reolting against the brotherhood. syria apparently mixing chemical weapons. the foundation for efense of democracy joins us here in moments. the unemployment rate drops. so did the number workers in

the labour force. we will be taaking about this economy and what washington is trying to do to it and us next witheter wallace and.

♪ lou: house speaker boehner says the president is slow walking our economy to the fiscal cliff. former reagan white house counsel, financial crisis inquiry coission member peter wallace will join me here in just moments. let's take a look at tnight's "moneyline." the dow and s&p managing gains. the naaq weighed down by another bad day for apple and its investors. the dow u 81 points. s&p up four, the nasdaq fell leaven. ju er 3 billion shares traded on the big board today.

the dow up 1%, s&p slihtly higher making three straight weeks of wins. the sdaq down 1% for its first losing week of the past three apple investors are having a rough time with the dow down. the stock down 9 percent this week. but even with that selling, t stock remains up 30% year-to-date. wall street analysts say muc of the selling can b explained by investors looking to avoid possibly having to pay gains on the sale of that stock at a higher rate next year. others simply taking profits. financial stocks strong. today j.p. mgan chase led the weight. news that it is expanding the numbers of its branch offices. research shows consumers have to walk into an office to do there banking. he knew tat? bank of amera also higher. two separate reports showed o very different aspects of consumer ehavior. consumer debt soaring $14 biion.

ththird straight month of gains. and the latest reading on consumer confidence shows confidence declining. phar-mor sharply than had been expected by most economists. my next guest is concerned that we are going over the fiscal cliff. he says, preside obama seemingly is intent on rsing his post-election advantage to win tax increaseson the wealthy and to eliminate the houses debt ceiling leveraged. joining us now from washington d.c., peter wallace, former reagan white house counsel, former member of the financial crisis inquiry commission. a senior fellow at the american enterprise institute. good to have you here. you believe there going or the cliff. >> i think their is a real danger of this. one can see a path for obaaa that does not look so terrible if we do go over the cliff. all of the taxes go up, but the democrats have an opportunity to introduce legislation to reduce the taxes for 98 percent of the

people leaving the wealthier people, i guess you could call them wealthy, the top two percentage to stay at the high rates. it is possible to do this. lou: it is posible, but i have to ask you, surely the republicans have to understand and had understand six months ago what what transpired in this lame duck session of congress? what this president oud press forward to. the fiscal cliff, the result of sequestration and agreements between the two paries, capitol hill and the white house. why would they not have thought out a position here? >> you know, one of the things that puzzles me about this is, even today the debate that the republicans are engaged in is really a debate with themselves. the media talks about the tax increas. that is almost all the talk about. and the only thing that makes sense to the republicans is to try to ge some sious control

over the entitlements. that is why they're in this game. and yet you hear ery little from the republicans. you would think that the speaker would get out and say, look, we are ready to talk about -- we are readto talk about new revenue, but i am not going to even get into that isue until the president moves his party. we know what the problem is. the democratdon't want to talk an entitlement reductions in all. the republicans don't want to talk about txes. but the real issues facing this country, controlling spending, not raising taxe. lou: not according to nancy pelosi. i don't know if you saw. we reported up the p. >> i didn't. lou: the minority leader actually said, you cann cut your way to deficit reduction. i mean, this isthe kind of mentality that speaker boehner must confront and deal with. one would think that wold be a winner for him, but apparently not.

>> i'm saying i am puzzled by the fact that he does not emphasize that much more andd3 really say, i'm not oing to talk but taxes. taxes is not on the table until the president comes forward with the plan on entitlements. lou: you are a formidable gotiator in your own right, experience, and i just want to ask you. why would anyone who is the leader of the republican party, frankly in a position, not insist uponealing with te president o has the superior power, the superior position and advantage,ot insist that any negotiation be at a specific table with specific parameters and in the -- end this nonsen that is at the periphery in permeate -- permeating th media >> that's right. well, the president, and this is one of the reasons why the president may take us over the cliff. cause i think he believes that he can get everything he wants by taking it right to the end

and, perhaps, over the edge. he has the big megaphone of the presidency. you can see what happens when he does anything. it's covered in the newspapers and on television. he is getting his point across, and he is keeping -- he is keeping the convertion about tax increases and wther the republicans, relatively minor tax increases, and keeping the conversation away from the major question which is how we control the out of control entitlement spending. it is an unbelievable situation for republicans, and i cannot understand why we aren't. lou: on this broadcast we never talk aut the fiscal cliff without referring to the incipient aus there rid of it all, and that is why i believe it is entirely appropriate told the president accountable for the fiscal cliff because this is the only bullish and work here. it is this president who has decided to issue an ultimatum. first on taxes and being raised

on only 2 percent of the people. secondly, insisting that the debt ceiling issue be compounded with it all. this is without question an ultimatum, the consequences are his. what do you think? >> well, i am afraid that eve though the consequences are his, the consequences for the economy will be his. think he is betting, think there is pretty good evidence right now that he is betting that he can win this argument because the media and his megaphone enable him to persuade the american people that the republicans will be the cause of the troubles that we will face if we go over the cliff. lou: history is littered with examples of those to proceed and rationally so but came up against creative, energetic opposition that found a way to prevent. always agree -- great to talk

with you. we appreciate you being here. >> thank you. lou: a little cororporate moneys not so bad. he could use tat, and he apparently will. we will have that story and protesters stormed the presidential palace in egypt. the government in trouble to. how much? we don't know. can the president support help in? we take itll up with he foundation for defense of democracy here next. stay with us.

♪ lou: breaking news. u.s. officials confirmed that the egyptian authorities have detained a man who has been described variously as, perhaps, an alleged ringleader of an egyptian terrorist network linked to the september 1th attack on the u.s. consulate in benghazi. the united states ambassador and three other americans were killed. also tonight, egyptian president

urging national dialogue still, but moving forward with his referendum on an islamist back to constitution. the new york times bureau chief in cairo, david kirkpatrick insting th the muslim brotherhood s not, and i do ," not violent by nature and have come over the last couple of decades, you off me and mor into a moderate conservative but religious moderate regular old political frce. well, joining us now is jonathan chancellor, former counter-terrorism analyst, current vice president of research for the foundation for defense of democracy, and it is good to have you with us. your eaction to kirkpatrick's descriptio. >> let me first say that the brotherhood, when it was ounded did have a violent army, and that was one of the reasons why the egyptian government ended up railroading get out of the political system. over time the brotherhood has

vowed to be a nonviolent organizations over the last several decades. -- lou: i am going to beg you for something because we're really pushed for tim >> yes,. lou: if you wil, was history and more in your judgment. >> sure. bottom line is thathe brother is the cornerstone of every violent organization that we see up there today. and so it may not actually be fostering violence itself, but it has spawned of many violent factions. lou: and in egypt your expectations as to what the course, what course will we witness taken there? prevailing, maintaining his pors? what do you expect? >> it is hard o imagine being dislodged. he sacked all of the military that could have potentially overturn them. at this point we are hearing that the crowds are large. they see this as a zero sum gain, and it really is going to

come down to whether this secular opposition can mobilize and whether they have the tools to bring him down. it does not appear at this point that they do. lou: let's turn to syria. as you know, the secretary of state meeting with russian counterparts in ireland today saying the united states agrees with russia d backing mediation to resolve the civil war. is there movement there or is it simply the perception of a -- of movement? >> i don't b it. the russians are jealously guarding the port of tartus where they have a significant military and inancial investment insyria. they are a patron of syria. it is very unlikely of the russians are going to help dislodge this, and that is a shame, obviously, because the syrians are loading chemical weapons. we hear dangerous reports command of syria right now. lou: and we learn that the pen exiles, one of the exile leaders

returning to gaza today. well, not rerning to, but going from whichhe had been banned for 45 years. your reaction? and an assessment of its significance. >> sure. the political leader. this is seen as a victory. i'm not sure why they t im back in. but currently celebrating his 205th anniversary, and they are also celebrating what they describe as a victory overthe israelis despite the fact that the israelis really dominated the battlefield during that war in gaza two weeks ago. lou: it's great to have you with us. we thank you so much. appreciate it. >> my pleasure. lou: much more. we will take all of that up with the "a-team" here next. ♪ lou: 18 days until christmas, 24 days until the fiscal cliff. no talks on capitol hill, no talks at the white house. the president's ultimatum driving has off that cliff. the "a-team" ighs in.

michigan infamous documentarian, michae more is back, and he is angry, as always. ifou plan to be part of his next ovie, you had better be a unn member. a low unemployment rate t a high number of unemployed. what is going on with this economy? and what happens next year? former cbo director joins us former cbo director joins us next. twins. i didn't see them coming. i have obligations. cute obligations, but obligatio. i need to rethink the core of my portfolio. what i really need is sleep. introducing the ishares core, building blocks for the heart of your portfolio. find out why 9 out of 10 large professional investors choose ishares for their etfs. ishares by blackrock. call 1-800-ishares for a prospectus which includes investment objectives, risks, charges and expenses. read and consider it carefully before investing. risk includes possible loss of principal.

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♪ lou: joining us now, the former director of the congressional budget office, former commissioner of the financial crisis inquiry commission, how many shows can brag that we have had two members of the commission on the same night and, as well, preident of the americanction for pretend you're. >> thanks. lou: fhting words in washinon. the speaker today actually said thesewords.

the president has adopted a deliberate strategy to a slow walk our economy right to the edge of the fiscal cliff. are you emotionally moed? do you think the nation is galvanized? >> i don't know if the nation is galvanized in the but i will be honest to my nervous about this. i view the clippers a genuine economic threat and a recipe for recession. we heard the secretary of treasury said earlier this week that he was prepared to go over the cliff, which i found shocking as the top economic official in an administration. if that is the strategy, it is a very, very dangerous one. lou: it is clear, the speaker made a clear, he believes that is precisely what the president wants to do and will do. as you say, it is stunnin to watch the principal economic financial figures in the obama administration be leading a political negotiation rather than, if you will, mindng over an economy filled with 23 million people unemployed al sorts of challengs at every

corner from and he is now politician. it is stunning. i want to get your comments, if i made, on something that nancy pelosi said today, which reported at the top of this broadcast. you cannot cut your way to deficit reduction. i am quoting her diretly. let's try that again because yo probably did not believe your years. yocannot get away to deficit reduction. your reaction? >> i'm speech was, quite frankly. i mean, if that -- if she believes that to be true, then she believes he can grow your way out of problems and there is no growth rate that is going to match th 22% projected increase in insurance subsidies under obamacare. or she believes e can taxer way out, and there is no way our economy can bear to double the fedel tax levelsfrom 18% of gdp the 36. at is what it would take. the reality is that the bulk of our problems during the spending, both in the near term are we have a seuester and a

longer-term where this is all about getting the entitlement programs under control. lou: getting the entitlement programs under control seems like a distant and remote fantasy with a president who is willing -- i mean, he has issued an ultiatum. he will be the cause of going over thefiscal cliff. i don't know what the republican leaders cannot hang onto that thought. they will be watching him, the reaction to the ultimatum, he will be sending the country over the fiscal cliff over what will amount to 8% of -- replacement of 8 percent of the deficit for fiscal 2013 it is mindless. >> as i said, i am quite nervous about this. i listen to speaker boehner say the day after the election, revenue is on the table the american people want to compromise and make wasington work. he said it again and put out a specific offer. all we have hed rom the

president is a hard-line was no negotiation on the tax side and not one word about the entitlement reforms that would have to match that for this plan to make any sense. and it is that absence of lead on the spending side and unwillingness to make compromises that will actually get als done and have washington auction again that i think our marks against this lame-duck session. lo you have projected, the action form has projected 10 million prospect of possibl 10 million people losing jobs, 10 percent unemployment. a 4% reduction in gdp if we go over that cliff. correct? >> that is absolutely right. i mean, this is a big tax increase. it's a big spending cut. more importantly, if you look at the debt ceiling debate, we saw a sharp drop in consumer confiden and we saw that today in the december number. a sharp drop in consumer confidence, and you also will see a big financial arket disruption. those are genie's you cannot stick back in he bottle and

lead to drags in the mainstream economy. lou: always good to have you with us. thank you very much. >>hank you. lou: up next, former ambassador, former director of national intelligence joins us here. shadowbox other, a former pacific fleet commander also among our guests. please be with us next week. stay with us toniht. angry liberal and acused hypocrite michael more sticks his nose into the michigan right to work fight. cayou imagine hat? the "a-team" is next. ♪ the capital one cash rewards card gives you 1% cash back on all purchases, plus a 50% annual bonus. and everyone...but her likes 50% more cash. but i'm upping my game. do you want a candy cane? yes! do you want the puppy? yes! do you want a tricycle? yes! do you want 50 percent more cash? no! ♪ festive. [ male announcer ] the catal one cash rewards card gives u 1% cash back on every purchase plus a 50% annual bonus on the cash you earn.

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♪ lou: mich., about to become the naon's 204th to right to work state next week. michigan's republican governor ys he wil sign the legislation after a final vote tuesday. coincidently, prident obama will be traveling to a detroit auto plan monday. the trip announced wednesday as part of an effort to drum up

support for hiking taxes on the rich. you would think you'd have to campaign for that. the president also opposes what it -- right to work laws. ybe it is more than a coincidence that he wil be in michigan. in the meantime, angry liberal michael moore's sounding off on the latest right to work developments in michigan. the filmmaker and a major meltdown on twitter writing he was enraged. he called on people to revolt. if you write, direct, added, shoot, or do sound for me and my next movie you will not work for me unless you belong to the union. but the thing at surprised e there is, thought you already had to be a union member to wo onis movies. he ay be hearing from a few unions themselves. george zimmerman, the man accused of killing a florida teenager martin is suing abc news coming the network tried to portray him as a racist in order to boost ratings. zimmerman took issue with other network edited his 911 call on

the night of the shooting in february. this is whatthe network aired. >> this guy looks like he is up to no good. he looks black. lou: wow. that's remarkable editing because this is what he actally said to te 911 operator. >> this guy looks like he is up to no good are on drugs or something. it's raining. walking around looking about. >> okay. white, black orhispanic? >> looks like. lou: it turns out to left quite a bit out of that dialogue, and they? the lawsuit seeks an undisclosed amount of damages. nbc denies any wrongdoing. they have not apologized. critics ae slamming president obama and his inauguration committee for anuncing they will accept corporate money to pay for three days of festivities in january. can't wait. a reversal from the president's policies just four years ago. back then he banned corporate

donations, limit individual contributions to a mere $50,000. of course, it tossd -- cost taxpayers quite a chunk. critics say the move gives the appearance the corporate donors would get something in reurn for their money. it can be. up next, democrats applauding a deceptively lower unemployment rate as the fiscal clef years. the "a-team" is here next. we will be talking with them. right here next. ♪ [ roasting fireod ] ♪ many hot dogs are within you. try pepto-bismol to-go, it's the power of pepto, but it fits in your pocket. now tell the world daniel... of pepto-bismol to-go. [ engine revs ] ♪ ♪

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♪ lou: joining me now, the "a-team", radio talk-show host, a pulitzer prize-winning journalist and fox is contributor. former rncspokesperson nd

columnist. good to have you all with this. let's start with this one because in the fiscal clef nancy pelosi today, and i just have to harp on this, saying you cannot cut your way to deficit reduction. i mean, as i said, i think yogi berra would be proud of that little paradox. >> nancy, you keeping in at. you keep thinking that. huntington butch cassidy and the sundance kid. butchcassidy, really both sides on this as we teeter toward going over the fiscal cliff. i'm like robert redford. and the sundance kid. i can swim. and the american public. you're going to take as always. you know what, it's amazing that they don't seem to give a dmn. i mean, they're goin on christmas break. the president in 21 days, golfing. lawsuit, the indonesia, the island of hawaii. and maxine and relaxing while we

slid down the abyss. lou: it seems to me, sherry, as the republicans cannot que figure out how to say, this is the president's decision. it's his ultimatum, and it's his choice. why can't they say that? >> because there is no guarantee that it will turn out well. there is a media that will try and blame republicans no matter what. plus boehnercould go in and cut a deal but he did you lose his right flank on this. starting to think it's a better deal for the republicans to of vote present, let the president on this completely. lou: agreeo raise taxes. >> now. his thing. mitch mcconnell tried to get the senate, hary reid to vote o the president's plan and harry reid said no. democrats are calling ita stunt. this is the president's plan we can raise taxes on rich and you don't have to cut spending and you can do all the things that he wants to do, and they don't want thatto come to a vote. there might be something there. i'm thinking that might maybe

make him on it and let the chips fall where they make. elections have consequences. at that right now. lou: i think we all agree about conseqnces. certainly. your thoughts on this? does it look to you right now like we are going to avoid this fiscal cliff? the president, but the brilliant idea? it's interesting how he does this. he initiates an ultmatum and the goes passive aggressive on everyone and withdraws from the field. it's really a bizarre and intriguing strategy which obviously has completely confounded republican leaders. >> yes, and the polls show that the american people are prud and -- probably going to blend republicans now matter what happen. lou: slightly. >> therefore i think that is what you're seeing with president obama'sttitude here. lou: does irritate you to think that they are going to blame the republicans denied republicans are basical saying, you know, we are going to step back because you're going to blame us instead of coming up with a

answer, a rejoinder to the president's going after them. and they don't have a strategy. they don't have a message. they don't want anybody to think bay of them. >> he is back to being a community organizer. getting in their face. that's right. whether you like cannot. and then he steps back, as you said. and he sets it off, and the republicans to my who's going to handle this one. finally, the shot caller is boehner. the way he should t barack cause he loves to smoke cigarettes and you know michele with those pythons will choke him. golf with me. put your ssice. sigrid's service agent. he has that chesterfield no filters, and we will negoiate this will smoke and a few paxson d a comeback. that's how they are negotiated. lou: and as he said, we will come back and continue this netiation in just moments. stay with us. stay with us. ♪ you know how painful heartburn can be.

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♪ lou: back with the a-team, and i want to turn, if i may, to george zimmerman suing nbc because of the outrageous job of editing, they did, in my opinion, outrageous, clearly, intentional. what do you think the chances of are prevailing? >> oh, damn good because nbc, says, oh, oh, the videographer, audio, video edit, it's, you know, he just snipped it in the wrong place. they'll blame the engineer, the video and the audio editor opposed to blaming their politics over it. lou: you agree? >> i see settlements, bigime settlements, and i would settle if i were nbc. lou: what do you think? did we need a deep peek into the interworkings of nbc news? >> well, you know, possibly. yoin if he could win or lose,

but it will not happen again at nbc or anywhere else after this. lou: i might want to get on the other side of that bet. there's seriouslycommitted ideological operators in a few placesthat might just, you know, humorous is a hard thing to constrain. the supreme court taking up the cases the defense of mairmings act, proposition eight, and there's a supreme court decision on gay marriage. >> let's go for it. most of those judges are married. if they determine that gays and lesbians should suffer like the rest of us heterosexuals who should be married. i fell in love, marry them, and they kick me to the curb. you have a right to suffer too, across the nation. lou: on board with the convention? >> well, i don know, look,

what this does i give social conservatives the fight they want, and the plat tomorrow -- platform they want to air this, and so, forhem, they look at this as a good thing because 's a fight they wanted for some time. other people might not like it very much, but people who feel strongly on either side, both sides,ment this fight. -- want this might. many in the middle rather we not deal with it. it will be interesting. lou: a lot of folks in the country who don't want to deal with any issue of my kind, but this presents itself to the supreme court. your thoughts on it, judy? important enough in your judgment to see a quick decision by the court? >> well, apart from being the divorce lawyers full employment act, apart from there, i think the course could choose narrow proceed interpretation. they may decide just some things with respect to the california law. i'm no sure the court wants to

tackle the issue because it is contrrversial right now. lou: is our shannon pointedut, taking on proposion 8 and the defense of marriage act. it looks like it might be a little broader than we migh have expected. >> it could be, but they have narrowed a broad, potentially broad, decision before. you have two swing stices here. the chief justice and, you know, obviously, the other guy that everybods watching, but i n't think you can predict this one. adam, really well-respected legal scholars, thinks they would naow it, and i suspect he's right. lou: going through a lot of trouble, creating controversy and hoopla for ju a little thing. you know, it's the day of big issues and little results. >> you got to love it. when it comes love and marriage, they have the urge to merge on the supreme court, rging them together. we love that. lou: v